Speaker 0 (0s): Welcome to the Tim Heale Podcast. If you have the time, you can not only listen to the episodes, but you can also watch all the shows, and you'll find the links in the description below. thank you.
Boom, I'm in the room. Good evening, good afternoon, good morning, wherever you are watching your listing from Welcome to Everyday Conversations Regarding, Mental Health.
Now you are here. Of course, there's nothing on the telling, and I'm coming to you live from the Old Heale Manor, and I'm your host Lord Heale. Now. Oh, wrong button. I should have looked. That was the wrong button. Anyway, you know what the show's all about. It's all about mental wellbeing, trying to stay, take the stigma outta mental health and bring it into an everyday conversation.
So I'm still looking for guests. I have a guest on this evening. They're in the wings, they're in the green room. They're waiting to dive in. So if you want to come on the show, give us a shout and we'll arrange it. But in the meantime, this evening, what we're gonna look at, it's going to pick up on the theme that we've been running with recently, is veteran suicide and support for it, and finding Tips and, and tricks to, to help people to let 'em know that they're not alone out there.
So, without too much further ado, let me bring in my guest. Here we go. Sherry, welcome.
Speaker 3 (2m 1s): Hi, how are you, Tim? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 0 (2m 4s): You are most welcome. Now you've got quite a bit of story to tell, just,
Speaker 3 (2m 11s): Just a bit of work
Speaker 0 (2m 12s): Being a right, honorable, and all the rest of it, and inaugurated by Congress. President had a hand in it. Did he?
Speaker 3 (2m 23s): Just, just a few things. So, yeah, so a little bit about me, Tim, as you asked.
Speaker 0 (2m 29s): Let's, let's give you the platform. It's all yours. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (2m 33s): Thank you. So, so I am Sherry Mason. My official title from, if we Wanna Talk about Lord Heale Heale here, my official title is The Honorable Cheryl Mason And. that comes from my time as the chairman, the first woman and military spouse to serve as the Presidentially appointed Senate Confirmed chairman of the Board of Veterans Appeals at the United States Department of Veterans Affairs in Washington DC And I served in that position for five years.
So, and prior to that, I also served as a judge and an attorney in, in the Department of Veterans Affairs. But my story starts a little bit before that. When I was a young, young girl, my father, a World War II veteran, died by suicide when I was four years old. And so I am a suicide loss survivor. And. that impact to my world as a young girl really changed how I viewed the world.
It, it changed the importance of people in relationships and the impact, but also it was the veteran community that came alongside and supported my mother and myself through that process. And then, you know, I went to college and met and married a Air Force officer, and I became a military spouse. And so the You know, as a military spouse serving all around the country and actually in, in Europe, you know, I, I got to meet so many different people both in the United States and in in Germany.
And, you know, both the military and the Veteran families struggle sometimes with transition and a lot of things. And, and I think one of the things I learned along my journey is, you know, telling your story and talking about those challenges is really important.
Speaker 0 (4m 41s): Absolutely. And I think that's one of the things that we're trying to, to bring with this particular platform that we're on, is to let people know that are that, that are struggling, that they, there is help out there. There is always help. Yes. That's, that song in mash suicide is painless. Well, it, it ain't, it just isn't. It's suicide has an impact on so many different people, not just the person that that's taken their own life or attempted to, but their family and their friends, and so many other people that it affects.
And that's what we're trying to, to prevent. We're trying to make it give people a reason to be able to go to, to a close friend, go to a doctor, go to somebody just to say, I'm struggling and I'm thinking about doing something. Can you help? And that's what we're trying to do. You're not alone. So many people, so many people have that same thought, and I'm sure you've seen it in your work life career.
Speaker 3 (6m 3s): I, I have, you know, not only did I lose my father, but my brother died by suicide two weeks before I left for college. And he left behind a young family. So the impact to our family was, was significant, not only with the loss of my father, but then the loss of my brother. And so what we learned as a family from that was that we had to talk about it, and we had to share our challenges and our concerns. Because when you experience suicide in your family, what a lot of people don't realize, but the studies do show us, show us now, is that you're at higher risk.
And so that's why it's even more important to talk about the impact and what you're going through and your challenges and share that. And so I, you know, I took those lessons forward with me into life and into my, my world. And, you know, when I was raising, when my husband and I were raising our two children outside the Washington DC area, the high school that they went to, they experienced six teenage Suicides over a period of about seven years.
And it was extremely difficult, extremely difficult for the community. And, you know, extremely hard for people to understand what was happening and why. And so there was, there was a mo there was a lot of discussion about it. My kids grew up understanding their, their history of their grandfather and their uncle. And so we always talked about the challenges. But You know what, what we found talking to their friends and family members was, some families didn't talk about those challenges.
And, and it's hard, it's hard to say, you know, I'm struggling. I'm hard, I'm having a hard time. But these days there's so many people out there who, who will just listen. And sometimes that's just what you need is somebody to listen and say, look, I know you're in, I know you're in a hard place and I'm here, but let me help you find the right connection. And as a judge, and as the chairman at the Board of Veterans Appeals in, in DC You know, we held hearings with veterans.
And so many times I would have a veteran across from me who was struggling with suicide issues. And, you know, when I asked them, are you thinking about suicide? It many times they were surprised that I asked the question because most people don't. And when you do ask the question, it lets them know that you're, that you care about them and you're concerned about them. And when I, when I would ask that question, it opened a door and allowed me to provide them support and get them support.
And I think that's, again, that's the biggest thing, is understanding that there's people out here. And this podcast is absolutely vital for this because it's so important that people understand that one, the impact of suicide in families is devastating. Can be devastating. But at the same time, you know, there's people there and, and we are here to listen and help.
Speaker 0 (9m 13s): Yeah. We, I, I hop on about this all the time. I, I, I'm part of several veterans groups in this area. I mean, we are blessed really in, in the south of England where I live in the Soland area, particularly in Gosport and Farham, we have the highest concentration of veterans in the UK. And the hospitals around here are geared up towards veterans and assisting veterans.
We have quite a few charities, In fact, I was at one today at, at a drop in over at the Veterans Outreach support, which lays on a, a drop in center once a month, first Wednesday of the month. And they get all the different agencies down there that are there to help veterans, which is really good. So I, I popped along to that today and before I went to that one, I was at another group for, for, for veterans where they give us a cup of tea and a a, a cake and a and a chat.
It's called Buns and Banter, And that, and And that had, I think there was 20 odd of us there. Today, we've got another one tomorrow afternoon that we go to regularly. And so there's lots of veterans around that will listen. And lots of veterans that have been in similar situations themselves don't have to be alone.
Speaker 3 (10m 47s): Right. That's one of the things the, the, the Department of Veterans Affairs does in the United States, along with the Department of Defense and also in the military and Veteran communities. We have quite, quite a few organizations who are there to support. We call 'em Veteran service organizations. And then there's others organizations who are, who are there to support. We have buddy check-ins. Some of the organizations do that. Yeah. Where they check in. We You know, as you know, and I'm sure you all do the same thing. It sounds like that's exactly what you do, is, is those check-ins is being there for people and saying, Hey, I'm here for you.
Call me if you need me. Or, and And, you know, with, with, when service members transition, well, any transition is hard, but service members transitioning is, is very difficult. And it's not just the service member, it's the family. Yeah. And so when, when the family is supported and the service member is supported, that, you know, and they know where to go and how to seek help, that helps the process. Because transition is, it's, it's not easy.
And it's not one and done, it's continual.
Speaker 0 (11m 55s): And I mean, when leaving the military, when I left the first time, I, I struggled, really struggled with getting into back into a civilian work life. And it's the reason I came back into the military, I couldn't hack it anymore. They, civilians don't have the same work ethic. They don't have the same loyalty and dedication to the job about getting a job done that the military has.
And, and it's difficult working alongside people that, that just treat as a job, nine to five. They won't do any overtime to, to get a job finished. It'll wait till tomorrow. I found that difficult to, to cope with. Fortunately, I managed to get back into the military. I did a double career. I ended up doing 44 years instead of 2022. And I retired at 60 with a reasonably decent pension.
So I don't have to go out to work. I, I would struggle going back into civilian street to work, that's for sure. But going down those, those dark times, I realized because of the work I did as, as a welfare officer in my last eight years, I realized that there was something not right with myself. And I was drinking a lot. And I was thinking, I'm on a spiral. I need to go and do something about it.
Recognizing that is is the first step in, in the journey to, to, to being or getting help. So I I, I managed to get a, an appointment and see my doctor. First thing he did was recommend putting me on to antidepressants. Well, I'd seen that And I was having none of it, but he, he pointed us in the right direction of, of getting some professional help.
There's a group in this area called I talk. They, they are psychologists, And, that sort of thing. I wouldn't see them, they didn't quite understand my problem. What, what was, what, why my, my issues. So weren't really able to help me that much. I had half a dozen sessions, said, thank you very much. I went and saw a couple of mates that I'd served with, and we put the old tin out on cracked a can open, swung the the lamp and freshed it out and got it put back in its box.
And I've been okay ever since. But it's, it's, it's, that's, that's identifying that you've got a problem in the first place, And, that you'd need some professional help. And we've, since that had happened, we, there's a new initiative that's gone on in this, in this country where we've got op courage, which is part of the National Health Service. And there's another part to it that, that deals with the mental and physical side.
so that is dedicated to veterans and for veteran support. So there is the opportunity out there, and what you must do is when you do transition out of the military, let, and when you register with your doctor and your dentist and stuff like that, let 'em know that you are a veteran And. that puts a flag on, on you for when you do need that extra support that you don't get in civilian life.
Speaker 3 (15m 48s): Right. Yeah. It's, it's when you're transitioning out, you know, as you said, the civilian world is different. And, you know, here, here in the States, I work with a couple of organizations and I sit on a board for, for an organization that talks about, and, and we, we try to help veterans think about their transition and, and think about where they might fit in their next job. Because finding that fit is important. It's finding, we call it finding your tribe because you wanna, and many times you see veterans go to places where there's other veterans.
That's certainly what my husband does. He, you know, he left the Air Force, he retired from the Air Force and he's a contractor, but he's a contractor with other veterans because that's, you know, that's,
Speaker 0 (16m 39s): That's so, so let's, he, he got out of the military, got a job as a contractor back for the military Right. On twice as much money that he was on doing the same job
Speaker 3 (16m 52s): Kind of
Speaker 0 (16m 53s): Close. But yes, I mean, so, so many guys are able to go down that, particularly the the, or if they come from the engineering background and stuff like that, they're able to get those jobs where they're, they're they're doing the same job they were doing in the military, but for twice the money.
Speaker 3 (17m 11s): Yeah. That's, that's him. So, but you know, we have friends who've done the same thing, you know, and, and really when I, when I speak with these groups and, and talk with these women and men, you know, that's what I tell them is like, look, first of all, the civilian world is different than what you're used to. Mm. And So, you, you need to understand what you're walking into. But at the same time, you also wanna know how you fit into their world that, you know, because you are a Veteran, you have served. And so that makes a difference.
And in, in the United States, the Department of Veterans Affairs does provide medical service if a veteran has a certain rating and, and things like that for disability and, and, and things like that. So, so there is, you know, there is like d different care because You know, that's the other thing, like you said, is finding the right doctor and service to care for a veteran is very different than caring for someone who hasn't served.
Speaker 0 (18m 12s): Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18m 13s): Understanding
Speaker 0 (18m 14s): Those. And also also civilians more often than not, don't get military humor. They don't get the military dark humor and Yeah. And And that can lead to problems as well in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (18m 30s): It can, especially these days. It can,
Speaker 0 (18m 33s): Especially in this woke world that we're in now.
Speaker 3 (18m 37s): Yeah. It, it can And. you know, that was one of the things, as part of, you know, I told you that I wrote a book after I retired from the va. I, I I, everybody told me I had to write a book. So I did. And I, the book is called Dare to Relate, leading With A Fierce Heart. And it talks about my journey as a suicide loss survivor, as a military spouse. And, and the lessons I learned and how that led me to lead with caring for my people first. And when you put your people and care for your people first, that's a different leadership style than we see in, in many, many organizations.
Hmm. And so when you have that connection, you understand and learn more about your people and So you can support them. And especially with mental health. And so, you know, I had people from the Gen Z generation all the way to boomers that who worked for me. And what I, what I've seen in the time that I've spent writing the book and listening and, and things like that, is that there is a gap between leaders and employees because the employees want that care and those relationships and, and leaders are struggling to figure out how to provide those because it's not how they've been trained.
And so they're trying to figure out how to do that. And so that's what the book is about, is really to kind of challenge leaders to, to think about how they lead. And because sometimes when you walk into an organization that is struggling, You know whether it's, in my case it was, it was morale, it was results, it was all of it, you know, turning the organization around has to start with the people first.
Yeah. And once you invest and care for the people, you bring tools and you listen and you support, then it starts to turn the organization around. Now, you know, we, we went through the pandemic. I I led through the Pandemic and unfortunately during the pandemic I did lose one of my employees to suicide. And it was completely unexpected. Even his family didn't, didn't see it coming. And it was extremely hard. But the minute I found out I was engaging with his coworkers and everybody who worked with him, and I brought in our team, we have a mental crisis team in the Department of Veterans Affairs who could help.
And I brought them in immediately. But I was engaged with those employees who worked with that young man. 'cause I knew him too. And it was important because I had, I had lived that. And so I knew what that looked like for them and how that impacted them. And it matters when, because it impacts your coworkers. Yeah. And it impacts people who know you And, and even the family, you know, they, I reached out to them and talked with them and they, they wanted us to know at the organization how much he loved his work and how much the organization meant to him.
And so that was really important to kind of bring that together And, you know, let people know. And, and I think, you know, leading through that is, is something that, again, leaders aren't trained classically to do, and they hand it over to human resources or someone else, and then the leader is seen as not caring or not being involved. And you can't, when you have that kind of situation, you have to be, you very much have to be engaged and involved in the situation to help your people.
Speaker 0 (22m 20s): Yeah. I mean, it sounds very much like it's, it is a bit of trim that, that trauma incident management piece where, where, where that somebody has done that and it affects so many people around them. And a trim team comes in. So 72 hours after the incident looks at who's been involved, whether they're directly involved, indirectly involved, who is affected, and, and then works out who's gonna need professional help straight away, who's gonna need an overall brief, who's going to need whatever support.
Right. And from that, the team is let people know that it's not unusual to have the feelings that they're gonna be going through, the emotions they're going through. And then they go back in the 30 day point. And if any time during that period people are still struggling, they get reassessed then and pointed in the right direction to get some professional help. And then they go back in the three months point just to see how people are getting on. And by that time, people should be dealing okay with it.
And, and that's And that helps in the long run Yes. For, for dealing with complex PTSD further down the line. Yeah. And we're, we're still seeing that sort of thing nowadays.
Speaker 3 (23m 54s): Yeah. Yeah. And I think, we'll, you know, that will continue a little bit, but I think that that program is very similar to what we had. I mean, they were in, within 24 hours to talk to the team. They offered counseling one-on-one group, you know, follow up what, you know, and it was ongoing. And You know, that's kind of the situation. You have to know as a leader, you have to have those resources. 'cause you know, I was lucky I was in the Department of Veterans Affairs, we have those resources, right. Yeah. But sometimes in the corporate world, you have to make sure that you have those resources for your people to, to have and to lean on You know.
And, and the other thing, you know, one of the things I do talk about in the book, and I, I talk about when I speak is, you know, we all have challenges and obstacles in our lives. They, that's what, you know, life seems to present those. And sometimes, you know, if you're really dealing with what you feel is waves of them, they just keep buffering you. It's hard, it's hard to, to look at that. And so talking with somebody else and, and learning and trying to figure out how you manage through that, because what I have learned from my experiences is that many times those challenges can be catalysts to propel you forward into something that is better.
It's a better purpose for you, it's a better direction for you, but you have to work through it, and you have to figure out how to do that And. you know, I think what I think for, you know, I don't know how, how Europe as much handled the pandemic as the United States did, but one of the things we learned in the United States is the importance of life as a whole over work United States, long time work is You know that's what you do. And life is part, you know?
No, we, we, we had turned that on its head, and so the pandemic taught us to turn that around. And so work is a part of life. It should enhance life, but it shouldn't dominate it. And I think that's an important thing to remember for mental health as well. Because what people, a lot of people don't realize is your mental health sometimes governs your physical health more so than you realize. And so when you're in that situation can be hard.
Speaker 0 (26m 20s): Yeah. I think you have to, to work to live, not live to work. And if you get that balance right, then, then everything else can drop into place. But living to work is, is not a way forward.
Speaker 3 (26m 38s): Right. And, and your mental health piece, I mean, taking that time sometimes to walk away and go take a walk. Yeah. Or go enjoy, you know, much like some of the pictures you were sharing, go enjoy, you know, life. Yeah. And go, go do things. Take those breaks, because that's really important. I know even when I was writing the book, it, you know, this, that's not my, it's not my comfort zone. So I had to learn how to manage the stress around that because it was very different than working full-time as a, as a CEO and You know, I would get into it and think, you know, you don't know what you're doing.
You, you don't know anything about this. And I knew that was my gremlins talking, but that it's also new. That was time for me to step away and take a break. Yeah.
Speaker 0 (27m 26s): It's, it's important. It's important to get that balance right. I mean, the military drills you into that, that work life again, it and getting a job done, obviously. But yes, there is time to step back to take that condor moment to think, hang on, I'm getting, I need a break. And it's important to get that. And if you don't, then it, it starts a spiral and it gets into that, that pressured situation where you start getting outta your comfort zone and you start getting, getting anxiety.
You, you start putting pressure on yourself when you no need to. Right. And I think that's important. I agree to take that time just to give yourself that condor moment and take a step back, take a breather, get some fresh air, and then get back into it.
Speaker 3 (28m 33s): Yeah.
Speaker 0 (28m 35s): So where can people find your book?
Speaker 3 (28m 39s): Ah, well it's, it's on Amazon. It's also on, I think Cobo, which is one of the ones that I think Europe has access to. So it's on Cobo, it's on Amazon, it's on Ingram Spark. It's another location. So it's, it's everywhere. Yeah. And yeah, so, so it's out. And I'm speaking, I'm actually launching the book tour next week. I start the first leg while I would be speaking from it, as well as signing copies while I'm out, out and about.
So unfortunately I'm not coming to England. I would, if I could
Speaker 0 (29m 18s): So it. Is, is the book in paperback and hardback, is it available digitally?
Speaker 3 (29m 25s): It's, it's on ebook, paperback and hardback. I'm working on the audio version, but that probably will not be out until fall.
Speaker 0 (29m 34s): Wicked. Are you reading it yourself?
Speaker 3 (29m 38s): No, I'm gonna have it narrated. I, I, I have a pretty good voice, but I also know enough to know that probably need to have somebody else read it.
Speaker 0 (29m 51s): Get a professional reader in
Speaker 3 (29m 54s): That's right.
Speaker 0 (29m 55s): Get a thespian to do it.
Speaker 3 (29m 57s): Thespian. That's right. A thespian. Yeah.
Speaker 0 (30m 2s): Terrific. Well, what I'll do is I'll, I'll, I'll put the, the, the notes in the, the description where you can find the book and very, very best of luck with it.
Speaker 3 (30m 13s): Thank you. And people all can always follow me on Linkedin. I, I have a few connections in, in England, primarily around the mental health and suicide network that, that I know over there. And some military spouse, you know, groups. So I'm on, I'm on Linkedin. It's Sherry with a C Mason. Very easy.
Speaker 0 (30m 35s): Terrific. I'll get that point in the description. thank you. So thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (30m 41s): Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 0 (30m 46s): Well, there you go. We've had another terrific discussion around mental wellbeing, about suicide. And hopefully you can take from this that you are not alone. There's always somebody out there that you can talk to, and sometimes it can be a perfect stranger. Other times it can be your nearest and dearest. But the first thing to do is, is recognize that you are not right yourself. You need some help. And once you go down that, take that first step, you'll be able to take the next step and the next step, every journey starts with the first step.
Just remember that. So until next week when we hopefully have another guest on Take care and TTFN Tartar for now. Oh yeah. I'm back with this one again. I do it every week. So, so thanks for your time, TT FN Tatar. For now.
Welcome to the Tim Hill Podcast. If you have the time, if can not only listen to the episodes, but you can also watch all the shows and you'll find the links in the description below.